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Tiger im Focus » Tiger-Abteilungen Heer » sPzAbt.504 » Tunisian Pzkpfw. III of 2nd company/s.Pz.Abt.504 ? » Hallo Gast [anmelden|registrieren]
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Ronny August
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Dabei seit: 15.04.2013
Beiträge: 55

Tunisian Pzkpfw. III of 2nd company/s.Pz.Abt.504 ? Zitatantwort auf diesen Beitrag erstellen Diesen Beitrag editieren/löschen Diesen Beitrag einem Moderator melden       IP Information Zum Anfang der Seite springen

Hello,

i have this original picture of a Pzkpfw. III Ausf.M, 1943 destroyed in the area of Tunis (La Mornaghia).





I have found out, it's definitely the Pzkpfw. III, which is today exhibited in the Tank Museum at Munster/Germany.

I used various photos for comparison, which showing the tank on the field of military cemetery in La Mornaghia at various times. As the tank there is gone, is not known to me.
He stood there at least until 1971, or slightly longer, and was then kept in a camp (Tunisian army in Enfida-Ville).
Briefly set up solely for the inauguration of the Central Military Cemetery in Bordj Cedria in 1977.
In 1986, the wreck was shipped to Germany and restored to running condition.

The mark on the side of the aditional armor, very strongly reminds of the white rhomboid of s.Pz.Abt. 504.
The digit #2, next to the rhomboid should then actually stand for the 2nd company ?

As far as I know, was the 2nd company of the '504' not in North Africa.

I hope that someone can give me a brief explanation, please.

Greeting
Ronny

Dieser Beitrag wurde schon 4 mal editiert, zum letzten mal von Ronny August am 07.08.2014 22:49.

03.08.2014 08:45 Ronny August ist offline Email an Ronny August senden Beiträge von Ronny August suchen Nehmen Sie Ronny August in Ihre Freundesliste auf
Chris Brown
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Dabei seit: 16.03.2008
Beiträge: 2196

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Hi Ronny,

I suspect that you may be right that this is a 504 vehicle, but have no proof.

This grab, which is meant to be from Tunisia, looks to be another view of the same tank.


This Panzer III seen in the UK at Sutton Veny looks like it may have belonged to 504 too. The number '102' is correct for 1/504 and there is a white rhomboid in the same position as on your photo.


Does anyone know any more about '102' or how we could find details on its?

Chris.

03.08.2014 14:46 Chris Brown ist offline Email an Chris Brown senden Beiträge von Chris Brown suchen Nehmen Sie Chris Brown in Ihre Freundesliste auf
Ronny August
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Dabei seit: 15.04.2013
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Hello Chris,

great find of a new picture of this tank. Thank you very much !
Where can I find the whole documentary film, because I think it is from a video?

Here another photo from my collection:



And this one, an image panel from Munster Tank Museum, which shows the tank upon arrival in Germany. Noteworthy, that the turret is still in its old position. Only the gun had to be shortened somewhat.



Maybe I should try to contact the Museum in Munster.
However, if documents to the tank would have been available, why has it then not correctly restored the tank to its original state?
This link says: "It is has been restored and repainted to represent a vehicle used by sPzAbt 504 of the German Afrikakorps...." http://www.achtungpanzer.com/german-panz...1-gallery-i.htm


Is there more information about the tank on the second photo by Chris? I think it's a wartime photo, at the time before D-Day.
I haven't found any similar photo of this tank in the UK. Maybe, some of the tanks in Sutton Veny, were scrapped after the war. I think it's not the #7 from Bovington, which came from Lybia and is a Ausf.L.

Strangely enough will be shown on later photos, the tank in my title image, multiple with a large black "7" on the front armor plate, next to the drivers sight. This number was however placed in later years of his existence on the cemetery.

More opinions are welcome. Thank you.

Greeting
Ronny

Dieser Beitrag wurde schon 2 mal editiert, zum letzten mal von Ronny August am 07.08.2014 22:50.

03.08.2014 23:16 Ronny August ist offline Email an Ronny August senden Beiträge von Ronny August suchen Nehmen Sie Ronny August in Ihre Freundesliste auf
Chris Brown
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Dabei seit: 16.03.2008
Beiträge: 2196

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Hi Ronny,

You can find views of the scene on the link, starting at 0:55 through to 1:07. The cemetery confirms we are looking at the same vehicle.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/victory-in-tunisia

If you are interested, the entire British Pathe collection is available on Youtube, you have to subscribe, don't know how much it costs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSaDw3qWtZc

I know nothing more of '102' in the UK. Hopefully someone here does and will let us know.

Chris.

04.08.2014 09:02 Chris Brown ist offline Email an Chris Brown senden Beiträge von Chris Brown suchen Nehmen Sie Chris Brown in Ihre Freundesliste auf
Federico Peyrani
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Dabei seit: 21.07.2009
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Hi Ronny!
The Veterans of the 2./504 i met in the past told me that some, if not all, of their Panzer III were shipped to Tunisia with 1. Kompanie, so this is not a surprise to find a 2.Kp Panzer III there. They were manned from the crews of the 1./504.
Regards
Federico

08.08.2014 13:47 Federico Peyrani ist offline Email an Federico Peyrani senden Homepage von Federico Peyrani Beiträge von Federico Peyrani suchen Nehmen Sie Federico Peyrani in Ihre Freundesliste auf
Federico Peyrani
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Dabei seit: 21.07.2009
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In the same way, at least one Tiger of 3./504 arrived in Sicily, even if the Kompnie's soldier never went to Sicily. You can see the Picture in the Sicily thread...
Federico

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Ronny August
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Dabei seit: 15.04.2013
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Hello,

Chris, first I've to thank you , for the helpfull link to the videoclip with the cemetery scene. smile

I don't think that still fights have taken place directly to the cemetery. The tank was probably only for the "dramatic" scene set on fire (or really shot?).


Thank you very much, Federico !

Your statement was very important and explain the presence of "my" tank in Tunisia plausible.

My first displayed photo is of such outstanding image clarity (original size 27,5 x 21,5 cm, here shown only a image section), that I'm always amazed what details there can be seen. It's a very fine Press photograph, no marks or written notices on reverse side. Only marking (maybe from b/w negative) "A-388" on right lower edge is visible.

Probably a still unnoticed photo that is been so far still not specifically assigned to a tank.

If you have some more informations, please tell them us smile

Best regards

Ronny

09.08.2014 01:28 Ronny August ist offline Email an Ronny August senden Beiträge von Ronny August suchen Nehmen Sie Ronny August in Ihre Freundesliste auf
Federico Peyrani
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Dabei seit: 21.07.2009
Beiträge: 144

New film about la Mornaghia War Cemetery 1953 Zitatantwort auf diesen Beitrag erstellen Diesen Beitrag editieren/löschen Diesen Beitrag einem Moderator melden       IP Information Zum Anfang der Seite springen

Hi Ronny,

I found a film about "your" Pz III in BAMA's Website.
I'ts been published on November 4th, 1953, the Volkstrauertag 10 years after Tunisia.
You can find the frames at about minute 1.00 of the film. Very moving.
Link

Regards

Federico

22.11.2014 18:45 Federico Peyrani ist offline Email an Federico Peyrani senden Homepage von Federico Peyrani Beiträge von Federico Peyrani suchen Nehmen Sie Federico Peyrani in Ihre Freundesliste auf
 
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