Im asking not about a source to confirm the pics(i have no doubts), nor i am interested who owns the photos etc....i was just interested where this great serie of Tiger 02 coming from cause i never saw any of these pics you posted
The Panzerkampfgruppe Diehls album photos were emailed to me several years ago. I believe I did purchase the Tiger 122 photos from this group. I do not remember who the seller was.
Here is another photo from that album.
Dieser Beitrag wurde schon 1 mal editiert, zum letzten mal von Greg Del Nero am 02.05.2008 03:01.
that Tiger is to find in the gallery as #2 , #5 and also as #31.
It is difficult to say what time frame your photo is, because the Tiger had carry more then one turret in his life.
I am still confused sometimes from all the photos of that Tiger showing him in different conditions. I believe this hull had initialy a rack for spare tracks on the frontplate. It seems this holder was lost and that was the time he carried the #2. Later he seems to renumbered as #5 and than as #31. In that timeframe he had a rack for spare track in front again.
To me it is sure that his initial hull was modified with the turret of the early prod.turret of Tiger #2 in early 1943. This fact and all the different turret numbers he had in all the time, it make it difficult to be sure what number he has on the turret on your pic. I guess its #5.
I should have at least seen the patch by the drivers visor. I completely missed it even though it is staring me in the face. My original photo of Tiger #5 in the gallery shows track storage on the frontplate and the patch is clearly visible. It lacks smoke dischargers on the turret.
Chris, you may be right about the #2 mantlet camo and the presence of the smoke dischargers.
On the left in the wood is an initial and on the road an early type Tiger. This could be well another photo of Tiger #2 and #3 but i found no match so far. Not so easy cause we didn´t know a good right side view of Tiger #2.
This pic I posted earlier today in the thread 'Ergänzung zur Gallerie 502/511 1944/45' - because it appears in the recent Panzerkampfgruppe Strachwitz book - with the remark that it was a match to #1 of early 1943.
This pic occurs in the gallery '502 ab Mai 1943' as an unknown. It is also a match for #1.
Can I suggest that both pics actually belong in the gallery for the earliest period '502 1942/1943'.
Higher up in this thread i put this Tiger in as a possible candidat for an 502 tank.
Actualy i had no idea where these photos are coming from.
Now i came across this photo in "TIC 2"/W.Schneider under the 4.SS "LAH" section...
I don´t know if this is a "LAH" veteran photo or one of the pics W.Schneider puts in as result of his own research. But in fact this show the same Tiger as above and i have some doubts now that we have an 502 Tiger here.
It looks like Schneider pic show an "4" on the turret of the Tiger?
On TIIF, the connection to 502 was made because of the match to this Tiger from the Diehls album and similarities in the location and buildings at the Werkstatt.
There could be a #4 there or it could be a #2, depending on placement. If it's a #4, it seems a bit big for 4.SS "LAH", but closer in size to #4 of 502 during Feb-Mar 1943. We have pictures of #5 at this location too.
The infantry in your top two pics are Heer rather than SS and the tanker in the top pic seems to have Totenkopf collar tabs and no armband suggesting Heer again.
I don't have the source of the top two pics to hand but remember it as a website showing the album of an individual who served on the Northfront, again making 502 the likely candidate.
In conclusion, I think you have found a good match, but believe this is #4 of 502 rather than 4.SS "LAH". I think Schneider may have identified the #4 and assumed it represented a 4.Kp and put in to LAH in error.
I think the comparison of these Tigers wasn´t the right way. It looks very similar but not the same. I had the guess the turret was changed because of the differences in mantelet style. I would take it back now and say this is not the same tank.
The style of the spare track holder on the lower front plate is more like 502 but 4.SS had a round rack. But never say never it dos not rule out 4.SS.....
I do believe too that Schneider possibly put him to 4.SS cause he thought theres a big "4" on turret side. But i don´t know that.
Glad to explain. Let's assume the smaller photo was taken many days later and the whitewash is faded relative to the big photo. Also note that we can see only a short length of the hull side on the big photo - compare to the wheel diameters.
These, then, are the matches:
Dark rim on cupola
Dark paint level with driver's visor
Vertical dark band on side
Slanting line on gun sleeve
I can see the suggested matches on the cupola, beside the driver's visor and on the gun sleeve but not the vertical dark band on the side.
The suggestion is that the new photo was taken some time before the side view of #122. In the intervening period the whitwash has become faded in places, i.e. the dark base paint shows through more in the side view. Looking at the hull side, the side view does seem to have a wider vertical band of base paint, as expected.
I have added vertical lines from the front rim of the road wheel in the 2nd position which appear to show that the thin band of the new photo is further forward than the wide band on the later photo. But if the wide band is the thin band expanded, shouldn't it cover the area of the thin band?