Registrierung Mitgliederliste Administratoren und Moderatoren Suche Häufig gestellte Fragen Zur Startseite
 

Tiger im Focus » Tiger in schweren Panzerkompanien » Schwere Panzerkompanie 316 (Fkl) » Tiger II Nr. 03 » Hallo Gast [anmelden|registrieren]
Druckvorschau | An Freund senden | Thema zu Favoriten hinzufügen
Neues Thema erstellen Antwort erstellen
Autor
Beitrag « Vorheriges Thema | Nächstes Thema »
John Winner
Expert


Dabei seit: 12.02.2010
Beiträge: 222

Tiger II Nr. 03 Zitatantwort auf diesen Beitrag erstellen Diesen Beitrag editieren/löschen Diesen Beitrag einem Moderator melden       IP Information Zum Anfang der Seite springen

It may be possible that when the 5 Tiger IIs released from the Panzer Lehr Division to create 316(Fkl) that there was a 6th that was kept by Panzer-Lehr-Rgt. 130, which would be Tiger 03. I think this is why it was found so far away from the other Tigers of 316(Fkl).

316(Fkl) was defending Chateaudun and Tigers 10 and 02 retreated east towards Toury. Tiger 03 was 47km north-east of Chateaudun in Nogent-le-Rotrou. We find between Chateaudun and Nogent-le-Rotrou other vehicles of Panzer-Lehr, the Pz. IV of the Ia of Panzer-Lehr (lost June '44) and Pz. IV Nr. 632 of Panzer-Lehr (lost 12 Aug 44). These were destroyed along RN 155 near Gohory south-east of Brou. Also north of Brou near Mottereau a Pz.Jg IV of Panzer-Lehr was lost (12 Aug 44).

I do not have a history of Panzer-Lehr, but it seems to me the division moved north-west from the area of Chateaudun to Nogent-le-Rotrou in June '44, and attempted to retreat south-east on or about 12 Aug 44. Sometime between these dates Tiger II Nr. 03 was lost in Nogent-le-Rotrou, which makes me believe that it was still part of Panzer-Lehr-Regiment 130 and not part of 316(Fkl).

This is just a theory, what do you think of it?

__________________
John Winner - Sturmmörser/Jagdtiger/Ferdinand-Elefant

02.12.2011 01:47 John Winner ist offline Email an John Winner senden Beiträge von John Winner suchen Nehmen Sie John Winner in Ihre Freundesliste auf
Michael Kenny
Researcher


Dabei seit: 17.03.2008
Beiträge: 47

Zitatantwort auf diesen Beitrag erstellen Diesen Beitrag editieren/löschen Diesen Beitrag einem Moderator melden       IP Information Zum Anfang der Seite springen

They were never 'part' of Lehr. They were issued to fkl 316 which was attached to Lehr.

02.12.2011 21:07 Michael Kenny ist offline Email an Michael Kenny senden Beiträge von Michael Kenny suchen Nehmen Sie Michael Kenny in Ihre Freundesliste auf
John Winner
Expert


Dabei seit: 12.02.2010
Beiträge: 222

Zitatantwort auf diesen Beitrag erstellen Diesen Beitrag editieren/löschen Diesen Beitrag einem Moderator melden       IP Information Zum Anfang der Seite springen

I see. I had just finished reading in Tigers in Normandy by Schneider (2011) this line, "Tiger 03, along with the five Tiger II's of schwere Pznzer-Kompanie (Fkl) 316, was assigned to Panzer-Lehr-Regiment 130 of the Panzer-Lehr-Division, which was originally earmarked to recieve an entire battalion of Tigers". The line is on page 306. Is this incorrect? Was Panzer-Lehr-Division not originaly earmarked to receive Tiger II's?
It would explain why Tiger 03 was so far from all the other Tigers of 316 (Fkl).

After reading this I had envisioned a set up like this:

Battalion Stab
Tiger I Nr. 01 Battalion commanders tank
Tiger II Nr. 02 Battalion Ia tank

1.Kp. Stab
Tiger II Nr. 03 1.Kp Kdr.
TIger I Nr. 04 1.Kp Ia

1.Kp.
Tiger II 10, 11, 12, 13
Tiger I 14

Other Tiger II's were then not going to be assigned and 316 (Fkl) was formed with 5 Tiger II and 3 Tiger I. 5 Tiger II set the Chateaudun for defense. The 3 Tiger I and Tiger II 03 kept by Pz.-Lehr, Tiger II Nr. 03 was lost almost immedeatly, and the Tiger I's were lost over time or handed off to some other s.Pz.Abt.

I think the real mystery here is what happened to the 3 Tiger I's.

So in short, my theory was, Pz.-Lehr was going to receive a battalion of Tigers, they recieved 6 Tiger II and 3 Tiger I, orders were changed and 316 (Fkl) was formed and sent off. Pz.-Lehr retained the 1 remaining Tiger II and possibly the 3 Tiger I.

As there is almost no information on this unit (316 (Fkl)), I was just develpoing a theory that may be possible. I guess I will just have to try and find the Pz.-Lehr records for this time frame and see if something can be found.

__________________
John Winner - Sturmmörser/Jagdtiger/Ferdinand-Elefant

03.12.2011 00:14 John Winner ist offline Email an John Winner senden Beiträge von John Winner suchen Nehmen Sie John Winner in Ihre Freundesliste auf
John Winner
Expert


Dabei seit: 12.02.2010
Beiträge: 222

Zitatantwort auf diesen Beitrag erstellen Diesen Beitrag editieren/löschen Diesen Beitrag einem Moderator melden       IP Information Zum Anfang der Seite springen

After a little digging around in some books I found the following information concerning Pz.-Lehr-Div. In Panzer Truppen 2 Jentz (1996) on page 178, the strength and organization of units on the western front includes Pz.-Lehr-Div. The count includes 3 Pz. VI which must be in either Pz.-Lehr-Rgt.130 Stab or Funklenk Kompanie since I./Pz.Rgt.6 is all Pz. V and II./Pz.Rgt.6 is all Pz. IV. Do we know anything about these Tigers? And could these be the Tiger I's that (supposedly) went with 316 (Fkl) to Chateaudun.

I am supposing they are the Lehr Stab tanks as the Funklenk Kompanie is probably the 9 StuG mentioned in the vehicle summary.

I for one am finding this little research project very interesting, I didn't even know Pz.-Lehr-Div. had anything to do with Tigers. Does anyone have any input on this?

__________________
John Winner - Sturmmörser/Jagdtiger/Ferdinand-Elefant

03.12.2011 10:51 John Winner ist offline Email an John Winner senden Beiträge von John Winner suchen Nehmen Sie John Winner in Ihre Freundesliste auf
 
Neues Thema erstellen Antwort erstellen
Gehe zu:

Powered by Burning Board Lite 1.0.2 © 2001-2004 WoltLab GmbH