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Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

04.09.2011 22:02 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

Both Burkhardt and Enderle are firm in recollecting they came down the Route Nationale along the wrecks of the RB halftracks etc., they were not part of Ritgen's force which withdrew towards Villy Bocage, but part of the second PLD force mobilized from the tank repair facility.

The question is, if they both refer to the same pair of Tigers already knocked-out. Currently, I would have some doubts, because the reports differ significantly.

Stfw. Bobrowski was part of Ritgen's force, his tank brewed-up outside and to the north of VB.

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

29.08.2011 10:28 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

Evgeniy,

the statement in DT's book is without doubt referring to Tiger 111. This is the one crashing into a shop window afterwards. No doubt about that.

It is still doubtful, if the scene with at least 4 Panzer IV of 5. / 6. Kp does at all play at the Mairie. Both Enderle and Rother speak about an intersection to be crossed, which is not there. I will not rule out, though, that we must not stay with the statement literarily. Probably they took the Mairie as an intersection.

But, Enderle (out of memory) speaks of 2 knocked-out Tigers already standing there when they arrived. How would that fit to the scene at the Mairie? I always thought they referred to the group of Tigers trying to get through the southern part of VB. There are intersections and ko/ed Tigers reported.

Both German crew report an AT gun firing from the left. No one reports a tank sneaking into the column and disappearing.

There is no reason to believe that 634 ist knocked-out and that it was the tank between 6?? and Enderle. The pictures show him moving out of what would be a perfect position to overlook the high street.

Anyway, how and why would he end up in this position when knocked-out on the way up the high street from behind, with or without being brewed-up?

Michael,

I see your point about Sgt Lockwood had reason to disengage from his position. But I still do not understand why in the hours following no-one would have noticed the Tiger standing there. From the Mairie, it must have been visible, and that place was in British possession throughout the morning. Is there a reasonable explanation for this (you have the original Sharpshooters Accounts at hand, I think) ?

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

27.08.2011 22:30 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

Hello Evgeniy,

sorry, I meant mantlet, not glacis. But it doesn't matter anyway, since the complete frontal area of 111 is undamaged. Daniel Taylor mentions that kind of action related to 111's dash across the square. It cannot have happenend this way.

If Sgt Brammall hit a west-bound Tiger through the edge of a house, it must have damage to the front. None of the Tigers at the Mairie have anything like damage of a 17-pdr hit on the frontal area.

I cannot see why 634 is regarded as knocked out at all. For me, it looks like he took up a securing position at the bend.

Just to add some more variants, Akhil has 634 brewed-up (!) by Sgt. Brammall. For those interested, I have the Panzer IV of Stfw. Bobrowski (not 634) brewed-up by an AT gun at St. Louet, on the road to Anctoville, north of Villers.

Cpl Horne's action is described as inserting into the German column, knocking out a Pz IV and vanishing unseen. Then the Pz IV must have travelled towards the western end of Villers. The only tank known facing east ist Tiger 212.

BTW, is the link with the identification of 212 still available? I only have word-files which aren't conclusive.

mail arrived, thanks :-)

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

27.08.2011 20:25 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

if Sgt Brammall hit a Tiger on the glacis, which then withdrew, it was not 111.

if Sgt Brammall hit a Tiger through the edge of a house, it was not 111 or 112 (why would it be 113, btw?).

if Cpl Horne hit a Panzer IV the way it was stated, it was not 634 and most likely not travelling towards Caen.

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

27.08.2011 16:16 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

the following, conflicting scenarios exist in literature of the kills at the Marie, in order of events:

Henri Marie:
1. Cpl Horne -> 1 tank (unspecified)
2. Sgt Brammall -> 1 Tiger (111?)
mentions 2 Tigers left
3. Andrew Rae (Cromwell, 4 Trp) -> 1 Tiger (112?)
last Tiger (212) found already "dead"

Daniel Taylor:
1. 6-pdr -> 1 Tiger
2. Sgt. Brammall and Cpl. Horne -> Tiger 111
3. Sgt. Brammall -> 1 Pz IV

Patrick Agte:
1. 6-pdr -> 1 Pz IV
2. Sgt. Brammall 1 Tiger
3. Sgt. Brammall 1 Tiger

Sharpshooters report:
attack of 3 Tiger, 1 Pz IV
1. 6-pdr -> 1 Tiger
2. Sgt. Brammall - > 1 Tiger (111?)
3. Sgt. Lockwood (!), Cpl. Horne 1 Tiger, 1 Pz IV

Akhil Kadidal:
1. Sgt Brammall - Tiger 112 (after 111 passed the square)
2. unspecified PIAT / AT-fire -> Tiger 111
3. Sgt. Brammall -> Pz IV (on retreat!)
4. Sgt Brammal, Cpl Horne -> Tiger 212

not much common ground....

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

at the Mairie 27.08.2011 09:56 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

Quotes form Daniel Taylor's book:

1. "As the first Tiger entered the square at the Mairie, Sgt Brammal's Firefly fired, the shot passing over the top of the Tiger because the range was too short to use the sights. The German tank was thereupon knocked-out by the 6-pdr"

6-pdr sitting to the left of an advancing tank. Which Tiger was involved?

2. "...Sgt Brammall spotted another Tiger nearing the square. (...) tried to brave the ambush by rushing past. (...) The tank rolled down the road until it was stopped by a building 30yds further on, demolishing much of it in the process."

This is clearly Tiger 111.

3. A little while later a Panzer IV appeared. (...) (Sgt Brammall) scoring a direct hit."

This is Panzer IV 6??.

4. Not mentioned in the book, but necessarily last on the scene would be Tiger 112. From the pictures we have of the wrecks, it is evident, that

a. Tiger 111 could not have rushed the square to crush into the building further down the road, if 112 had already been there. So 112 is not the Tiger k/oed by the 6-pdr.

b. the Panzer IV 6?? could not have reached the point where it ended if Tiger 112 had already been in place, because 112's position interferes with 6??'s path. So 112 is not the Tiger k/oed by the 6-pdr.

This leaves the question of the identity of the Tiger k/oed first. For me, the most plausible explanation is that it must have been Tiger 212.

It would explain the damage to the left hand side of the hull. The 6-pdr could have done this from where it stood. The Tiger seems to have been able to pull back, turn around and clear the road for the following attack force by parking on the curb. To clear the road in this situation would make sense, since the Kdt. of Tiger 212 knew there were other tanks behind him. For Wittmann, it would not have made much sense, for he knew he was on his own.

It think that Wittmann's ride ended near Place Lenoir and Moore's and Hedge's tanks might have been on the receiving end when he "shot at everything that moved" before bailing out.

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

26.08.2011 23:54 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

Zitat:
No German account have been found to support a scenario where a 2.Kp Tiger (or more) was involved in the afternoon battle. In fact, all know German testimonies argue against that.


It is not deniable that more than one (Wittmann's) 2. Kp Tiger took part in the fighting. That would mean the other 2. Kp. Tiger(s) attacked together with Wittmann? There is no account from BOTH sides as far as I know of which would back that?

Wouldn't it be plausible that the reports only mention the Kp. in lead, not the single Tiger involved? If 1. Kp. leads the afternoon charge with 5 or 6 own Tigers and a couple of 2. Kp Tigers under 1. Kp command, would any (official) report make mention of this?

I see through some of the posts that 212 is still regarded as Wittmann's mount or related to the charge in the morning. That leaves a couple of questions on my part:

How can we explain Tiger 212 sitting all morning near the Mairie - according to the Wittmann account immobilized, but not badly damaged - without the British trying to retrieve it or at least torch it - not to forget mention it at all?

But: if Wittmann's Tiger stood near Place Renoir, it probably would have been obscured from sight from downtown by the false crest.

Cotton's try to find an alternative route in the timeframe between the two attacks led him back through southern VB to the Place de la Mairie - yet he did not see the Tiger a couple of yards to the right? Remember Cotton was eager to torch any Tiger thought to be retrievable. Why would he have ignored 212 for hours?

Tiger 212 looms in the background of 112 and the PIV before 112 was torched. That is the earliest picture of 212 I know of.

Lockwood reported Wittmann firing into a side street when engaged by him for the first time. There is no side street where 212 ended up. And it is common ground that Wittmann at least did not advance any further after being engaged by the Firefly. So how would 212 end up further down the high street after Wittmann abandoned ship?

BTW: 231 retained its battle scar on the drivers visor for the rest of his service life. It seems very unlikely that such a minor damage which was not deemed necessary to repair would have caused the death of the driver.

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

24.08.2011 09:15 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

Evgeniy,

I amended my postting while you were already answering. Sorry. Did you refer to your mention of Hedge and Moore ?

Another point of interest for me would be the kind of damage Wittmann's Tiger received. He stated that the Tiger was immobilized, but fully intact as far as the ability to fight with the main gun is concerned. The turret traverse was not affected as well. So the blow must have been dealt to the hull or running gear.

Michael mentioned earlier that 231 received a hit on the driver's visor and coupled this with the reported death of a driver in 2. Kp., which is fully plausible. If the driver of 231 was killed, than it cannot be Wittmann's mount, since he would have mentioned it for sure in his after action interview, which we are blessed to have in its original audio version, not only transcripted or altered by a reporter. He sounds stressed, but not shaken, which certainly would have been the case if his crew would have suffered any serious casualties.

What I am trying to find out is if the battle scar on 231 can be "read" by someone with better knowledge in weapons, ballistics and the like, i.e. can we determine by the damage we see what kind of weapon was involved and from which distance it struck?

And, can we determine what kind of damage this blow would have done inside the Tiger. Would it - by any chance - have been sufficent to kill the driver (I am fully aware that this is nearly impossible, because so many unknown circumstances can come into play here) and - much more interesting - would it have been sufficent to immobilize the Tiger without help from the maintenance crew?

This just because some rods of the steering were bent or some necessary equipment damaged? Would anybody with better knowledge on the technical aspects of the Tiger be able to contribute?

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

24.08.2011 08:17 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

In my opinion, we must not stretch the account of Wittmann, which was made just hours after the engagement, too far.

That is the major flaw in Daniel Taylor's book. By sticking to MW's words that he received a "heavy anti-tank hit" ("schwerer Paktreffer"), Daniel was looking for the next anti-tank gun around and only found one at the entrance of Villers. Since the Tiger could not be hit while travelling downtown (otherwise, the RHQ Troop and the following vehicles would have never been hit), he stretched the account over the limits by letting Wittmann turn around and egressing, only to be hit at the exit of Villers by the anti-tank gun.

Daniel saw a problem of "finding" an anti-tank gun while there absolutely was no need for that. What he overlooked is the fact that "schwerer Paktreffer" can as well mean that Wittmann was hit by any anti-tank weapon apart from a PIAT. Remember that the Firefly mounted an anti-tank gun, the 17-pdr. Wittmann would have never been able to say if he was hit by an hidden anti-tank gun or tank fitted with such a weapon.

While sticking with Wittmann's words literally at this point, Daniel totally ignores the key part of his account. Two times he says his tank received a hard hit and was immobilized ("bewegungsunfähig"). That means he could neither turn nor travel back out of the town. He makes clear that he received the hit "in the middle of the town" where he was immobilized and abandoned ship on the spot. He further states that he regarded the Tiger recoverable, therefore not destroying it, which is quite remarkable since no friendly forces were around and the enemy not far.

Therefore, I assume that the Tiger was abandoned facing downtown somewhere near Place Lenoire. Evgeniy remarked that there should have been the tanks of Hedge and Moore. I am currently not aware of their accounts. What puzzles me is Daniel's statement that the length of the main street between the OP Sherman and Lockwood's Firefly where clear of any British forces. This seems rather odd. Can this be confirmed?

Anyway, my taking of the accounts at hand is that Wittmann's Tiger did not travel back out of the town after the engagement with Lockwood. And I do not see that the uphill facing 212 shows us the Tiger of Wittmann at the place he left his mount.

A very interesting question in my opinion would be the situation at the high street in the timeframe between the charge of Wittmann and the main attack in the afternoon. Was the high street no man's land and what stretch exactly was in whom's hand? The further down the road the Tiger was left would make it more likely for the British to try to capture a virtually intact example. Would that have taken place, we would have heard about, I guess. The point were 212 sits after the battle should have been in British hands as far as I understand.

The most likely scenario would be the abandoned Tiger sitting between the bend and the ridge on high street, near Place Lenoir, with no-one able to get near to the tank. After the attack in the afternoon, it was recovered by the Germans. Unfortunately, before the film team entered town. Or do we see the Wittmann Tiger with the recovery scene of 222 and 231?

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

22.08.2011 23:34 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

IMHO, the battle scars on 231 at least prove that there had been more 2. Kp Tigers engaged in VB than just MWs mount. Therefore there is no need to accept 212 is MWs mount just because it is a 2. Kp tank and the afternoon charge is generally attributed to 1. Kp only.

MWs claim to have reached "town centre" is not to be taken as the middle of the town geographically as we see today when we look at a map. MW will not have had that detailed overview and when approaching Place Lenoir, it is not unplausible that he took it as town square.

The same as his statement of a "Paktreffer". I agree that it is not to be translated by the word, but the meaning. He refered to anti-tank fire, simply not knowing if that 17-pdr gun was towed or installed in a Firefly.

I will not rule out that he hit Dyas from a position between the bend and Place Lenoir, but still the question is: were did he hit him. There is no trace of a penetration in the front section of the Cromwell, nor the LHS or RHS frontal areas.

I will be happy to accept the story of Dyas' brave move to hide and stalk a Tiger, but the following points are against such a claim:

1. There is no visible damage to the front of the Cromwell, but a burnt rear end.

2. There is no explanation where he could have hid and let the Tiger pass. If he pulled in next to C-Ts Cromwell, why wasn't he hit there and how come that C-Ts Cromwell could be hit on the RHS of the turret with another tank at his side? To "pull beside him" would mean on C-Ts RHS, because on the LHS there was no room for another tank.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

3. The overall layout of the battle (surprise attack on the RHQ Troop, scattering of tanks in all directions) would make a move away from the attacker towards the own forces downtown not unplausible.

After the Battle claims of both sides have to be taken carefully, in my opinion.

Thema: Villers Bocage
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 97
Hits: 78347

22.08.2011 21:01 Forum: sSSPzAbt.101

Hello folks,

long time, no see - sorry, life got in between and took me away a bit from the Tigers.

Anyway, here's a couple of pictures I have of Dyas' Cromwell.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

They are even better printed in Daniel Taylor's book, where I had long looks at them, but could not find a trace of an 88mm round going in - that's why I confronted DT with his claim on the other forum Evgeniy already brought up here. DT admitted that he was wrong with his assumption.

I am still in good faith that Dyas' Cromwell was not hit head-on. Other than this point, I consider Daniel Taylor's account of what happened very plausible. That means MW did not venture as far as the point where 212 ended up, but only as far as Place Lenoir approximately. The Tiger was more likely than not recovered, probably it was indeed 231.

Furthermore, I do not consider Panzer IV 634 as a loss. In the picture in DT's book, he is on the move, probably under tow by another PIV, but still moving. I do not have him on my loss table therefore.

The traces of tanktracks visible in Hartmut's opening post must be from movements after the battle, probably of tanks already recovered. They are simply too fresh.

In my opinion, the fact that the VB action is so well covered with pictures is tempting and leads to the assumption that we see the whole story on the pictures, which we simply do not.

There is no need to press 212 into the oral account of MW. It is far more plausible to see 212 in junction with the afternoon attack of Tigers and PIVs downtown whereas MWs Tiger more likely than not had already been recovered about the time the newsreel team entered town.

Cheers

Matthias

Thema: Tiger der ehem. sPzKp Meyer in sPzAbt 508
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 0
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Tiger der ehem. sPzKp Meyer in sPzAbt 508 11.05.2009 18:16 Forum: sPzAbt.508

s.Pz.Kp. Meyer was merged with s.Pz.Abt.508 on 03MAR44, most of its Tigers joining 1.Kp. Coverage of s.Pz.Kp. Meyer can be found in the separate 'Schwere Panzerkompanie Meyer' gallery.

Link:
http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?threadid=109&sid=



Tiger "von Eschnapur" former Meyer
This Tiger has the nickname "von Eschnapur" from its time as a member of s.Pz.Kp. Meyer together with the new number '122' given on joining s.Pz.Abt.508.

Thema: Training
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 0
Hits: 5241

Training 11.05.2009 18:13 Forum: sPzAbt.508

Paderborn/Sennelager









Mailly-Le-Camp


3.Kp

Thema: Ergänzung Tiger II der 3./510 und 3./511
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 63
Hits: 48288

08.05.2009 20:55 Forum: sPzAbt.510

Hier das Bild:



Das neue Bild zeigt ziemlich eindeutig, dass es diesselbe Brücke ist.

Thema: Jagdtiger im Osten
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 7
Hits: 13884

26.04.2009 12:20 Forum: Jagdtiger

Einige Anmerkungen vorab: wir reden vom Zeitraum Ende April / Anfang Mai 1945. Die Reste der WH/WSS sind in Österreich zwischen US und SU-Truppen eingezwängt. Verschiedene Einheiten haben Besatzungskontingente nach St. Valentin geschickt, diese haben die dort vorgefundenen Jagdtiger selbst ausgerüstet und eigenständig übernommen. Man kann daher nicht mit letzter Gewißheit sagen, wie es im einzelnen war.

Was wir haben sind Berichte einzelner Besatzungsmitglieder, Fw. Schlabs von der 1./653, Stm Ernst Kufner von der 3./SS501 und weitere Berichte aus der 653-Chronik. Bei allem im Auge zu behalten ist die geringe Zahl gebauter Jagdtiger, wahrscheinlich 88, mindestens aber 80 und nicht nur 70 wie Agte schreibt. Außerdem war der Jagdtiger grundsätzlich mit 12,8cm Geschütz bewaffnet, und nicht wie Agte schreibt mit 8,8cm. Die Berichte über eine Ausrüstung der letzten Jagdtiger mit 8,8cm Geschütz sind bislang in keiner Weise belegt.

Schlabs berichtet, er habe insgesamt 4 12,8cm Geschütze am 30.4.45 verladen, die von ihm, Fw. Golinski und zwei Leutnanten einer unbekannten Einheit kommandiert worden seien. Einer (Fw. Golinksi) ist an der Brücke in Amstetten geblieben, die letzten (drei?) in Strengberg übergeben worden. Auf dem einen Bild in Strengberg kann man schemenhaft 3 Jagdtiger sehen (oder ahnen). Zwei sind dort auf jeden Fall dokumentiert (das Haus im Hintergrund ist nach dem Krieg identifiziert und fotografiert worden). Daher spricht viel für den Bericht von Schlabs, der durch Fotos zumindest teilweise belegt ist. Hier nochmal die beiden Bilder:




Alle anderen Berichte haben bislang keinen Bildbeweis für sich.

Sturmmann Kufner berichtet von zwei Jagdtigern, von denen einer an der Brücke in Waidhofen aufgegeben wird und der letzte in Weyer-Markt.

Devey ist der Meinung, aufgrund der Ähnlichkeit der Berichte über den Verlust eines Jagdtigers an einer Brücke sowie des Umstandes, dass 4 der von der 653 zu übernehmenden JT durch Besatzungen einer unbekannten Einheit (es kann eigentlich nur die SS501 sein) übernommen wurden, könnte es sich bei dem Bericht von Kufner um die beiden anderen JT handeln aus der Gruppe der 4 ursprünglichen. Hierfür scheint einiges zu sprechen.

Andererseits: wenn Bilder oder Berichte aus Waidhofen / Weyer Markt den Bericht von Kufner stützen würden, könnte es sich hierbei um zwei weitere Jagdtiger handeln, die mit der ersten Gruppe der 4 nichts zu tun haben.

Es gibt noch einen Bericht, wonach eine Abordnung der 3./653 am 6. Mai 1945 keine Jagdtiger mehr in St. Valentin vorfand, weil „die SS sie uns vor der Nase weggeschnappt hatte“. Das kann sich aber auch auf die Gruppe der 4 beziehen.

Ltn. Knippenberger von der 653 will die letzten 7 oder 8 Jagdtiger am 4. Mai 1945 in St. Valentin gesprengt haben.

Wenn man sich vor Augen hält, dass

6 Jagdtiger an Erprobungsstellen und Schulen gingen
42 oder 43 Jagdtiger an die 653
27 Jagdtiger an die 512
4 von der 653 (Kampfgruppe LAH) im Werk abgeholt wurden
7 oder 8 im Werk gesprengt wurden

kommt man auf 86 bis 88 Einheiten. Maximal 88 dürften gebaut worden sein. Es bleibt also rein zahlenmäßig nicht viel Raum für 2 weitere (oder gar 6) für die SS501.

Solange daher kein Bericht/Bildmaterial auftaucht, was den Einsatz / Verlust in Waidhofen und Weyer Markt belegt, wäre ich da eher zurückhaltend.

Die von Dir erwähnten Bilder 1-3 zeigen einen Jagdtiger in Süddeutschland (von verschiedenen US Einheiten fotografiert, nur dort trafen diese zusammen); Bild Nummer 6 zeigt einen Jagdtiger in Gmund am Tegernsee. Beide also von der 653.

Zu dem Thema ist allerdings zugegebenermassen noch einiges ungeklärt, u.a. die Bewandtnis des Jagdtigers "Sunny Boy" (angeblich der von Golinksi).

Thema: Jagdtiger im Osten
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 7
Hits: 13884

26.04.2009 00:33 Forum: Jagdtiger

Bild 4: Das müßte ein Franzose sein.

Der Bericht von Agte ist etwas problematisch. Es dürfte sich in jedem Falle um die oben erwähnten 4 JT handeln, einer (Golinski) ist in Amstetten liegengeblieben, die anderen 3 sind in Strengberg geendet. Die Enns war die Grenze, wo sich US und SU-Truppen getroffen haben. Wo die anderen 2 JT herkommen sollen, ist sehr schleierhaft. Die 653 Chronik erwähnt davon nichts, und mit neuen JT wird es schon rein zahlenmäßig schwierig.

Bei mir läuft diese Episode unter der 653, "taktisch" der LAH unterstellt.

Thema: Jagdtiger im Osten
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 7
Hits: 13884

26.04.2009 00:05 Forum: Jagdtiger

Hallo Hartmut,

ein Jagdtiger-Einsatz an der Ostfront ist mir bisher nicht bekannt. Du hast das Thema ja jetzt auch auf die Begegnung mit den Soviets in Österreich eingegrenzt.

In Österreich sind 4 Jagdtiger am 5. Mai 1945 verlorengegangen bzw. an die Alliierten übergeben worden, drei davon in Strengberg.

Einer davon steht heute in Kubinka, Deine 3 ersten Bilder.

Das 4. Bild zeigt einen JT der 653 in Deutschland, soweit mir bekannt. Wie kommst Du hierbei auf Österreich ?

Das 5. Bild zeigt die Szenerie in Strengberg.

Das 6. Bild ist nahe bei Linz (Nibelungenwerk, Herstellungsort der JT) entstanden. Es ist fraglich, ob dieses überhaupt ein Einsatzbild zeigt oder einfach eine Testfahrt.

Die JTs in Strengberg sind der 653 zuzuordnen, die sich bis nach Österreich zurückgezogen hat. Es handelt sich dabei um neue Fahrzeuge, aus dem Werk geholt und dann in den letzten Tagen in Österreich eingesetzt.

Zwei Kommandanten (Fw. Horst Golinski und Reinhold Schlabs) waren von der 1./653. Die beiden anderen Kommandanten kamen aber wohl von der SS501. Der letzte Einsatz erfolgte unter dem Kommando der LAH / 6. SS-Panzer-Armee.

Trotzdem waren dies keine Jagdtiger der SS501 oder LAH, und ein Ostfront-Einsatz war das auch nicht. In der Gegend Ybbs - Strengberg sind die US- und Soviet-Truppen zusammengetroffen, wenn ich das noch richtig im Kopf habe.

Thema: 3. Kp. im Ungarn
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 9
Hits: 12510

23.04.2009 20:47 Forum: sSSPzAbt.501

"Ich verstehe nicht ganz inwiefern dieses Foto als Beweis stehen kann. "

Gemeint war, dass in den Ardennen verlorene Tiger wie der 334 derart ersetzt wurden, dass die Nummer wieder neu vergeben wurde. Das war bislang nicht belegt. Daher ist das Bild interessant und wichtig.

Dieser hier dürfte jetzt, wo die Bilder von 313 und 334 vorliegen, sicher der sSS501 zuzuordnen sein:



Frage nur: warum hat der keine Nummer bekommen, wenn man sich bei den anderen die Mühe mit der Umzifferung macht.

Thema: 3. Kp. im Ungarn
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 9
Hits: 12510

3. Kp. in Ungarn 22.04.2009 20:32 Forum: sSSPzAbt.501

Der Beweis, dass eine gewisse Kompensation der Verluste aus der Ardennen-Kampagne vor/in Ungarn stattgefunden hat:



Ein neuer 334, in Ungarn aufgegeben. Er steht offenbar im selben Dorf wie diese hier:

326A: 3xx
332A: 313
333A: ohne Nummer, auch 3. Kp.?

In diese Reihe gehört m.M. auch der Jagdpanther mit der Trophäen-Nummer 325A. Es gibt auch noch einen Jagdpanther 328A. 329A und 330A sind Jagdpanzer IV L/70 (V).

Es wäre interessant zu erfahren, wann und wo diese Panzer aufgegeben worden sind.

Thema: Ergänzung zur Gallerie Tiger II der 3./510 und der 3./511
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 12
Hits: 13534

08.04.2009 20:55 Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

Super, danke!!!

Thema: Ergänzung zur Gallerie Tiger II der 3./510 und der 3./511
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 12
Hits: 13534

08.04.2009 20:40 Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

Hallo Mario,

um welchen Panther geht es? Der aus Panzerwrecks 1, vor der Autobahnbrücke?

Grüße

Matthias

Thema: Ergänzung s.Pz.Jg.Abt. 653
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 57
Hits: 43414

03.04.2009 21:10 Forum: Jagdtiger

Hi Chris,

excellent pics !!!

I agree it is 233 in all cases, with the blueish one being the earliest!

Thanks for sharing!

Matthias

Thema: unidentifizierte Jagdtiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 103
Hits: 74451

01.04.2009 18:34 Forum: Jagdtiger

Hello Chris,

when Uli Mössner sent me a report about a "Tiger" abandoned in Unterbrunn, I did some preliminary research about this village in southern Bavaria and found a picture which immediately struck me, because it showed a house which (or a similar one) I had seen before - on C.L.s pictures. I asked him (Chris Leeman) about further information, but all he had was the info about other pics in the lot being taken in Bavaria. I think we have a good chance to have a match here. Interesting to see that he is selling his lot now.

Here is the old T-N comp:


What connection do you see to Ederheim?

Thema: Ergänzung s.Pz.Jg.Abt. 653
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 57
Hits: 43414

30.01.2009 23:48 Forum: Jagdtiger

Hallo Mario,

schönes neues Bild, wo kommt es her? Welches Gmünd hast Du im Sinn?

Könnte es Gmund am Tegernsee sein? Viele 653er scheinen südlich von München geblieben zu sein.

Grüße

Matthias

Thema: Help needed on Aberdeen Tiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 22
Hits: 17174

04.06.2008 13:33 Forum: sPzAbt.501/424

Hello Brian,

thanks for your reply. If I get you right, 250 031 is the FgStNr of the Aberdeen Tiger - numbered 712 when captured and "112" sometime afterwards, the original tac number not known so far.

What I try to figure out is the Fahrgestell-Nummer of the Tiger 712 at time of the capture. Since you mention "Fahrgestell-Nummer 250 058" in connection with a picture of "112" (which is the identical verhicle, numbered 712 at time of capture),

http://www.theresearchsquad.com/books.html

this caused some confusion over here.

In the end, 250 058 would NOT be the FgStNr. of 712, but 250 031, correct?

Cheers

Matthias

Thema: Help needed on Aberdeen Tiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 22
Hits: 17174

01.06.2008 22:45 Forum: sPzAbt.501/424

Hello Brian,

so would 250 031 be the FgNr of Tiger 712? Then what is the significance or 250 058 connected to "112":



It is my understanding that "112" is former 712?

Matthias

Thema: unidentifizierte Jagdtiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 103
Hits: 74451

26.05.2008 19:49 Forum: Jagdtiger

Bilder sagen ja bekanntlich mehr als Worte smile

So meine ich, stehen die Jagdtiger bei der Übergabe:

Thema: unidentifizierte Jagdtiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 103
Hits: 74451

25.05.2008 22:31 Forum: Jagdtiger

Hallo Norbert,

falls die Zuordnung sich auf das Bild von vorn betrachtet bezieht, sehe ich das auch so. Normalerweise würde man von der Blickrichtung in "Fahrtrichtung" ausgehen, dann steht X1 links, X2 mitten, X8? rechts.

Grüße

Matthias

Thema: Ergänzung zur Gallerie Sturmtiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 35
Hits: 30962

25.05.2008 18:37 Forum: Sturmtiger

Hallo Mario,

ich kannte das Bild bislang nicht, daher die Frage im Hinblick auf die Einordnung in der Galerie.

Thema: Ergänzung zur Gallerie Sturmtiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 35
Hits: 30962

24.05.2008 22:25 Forum: Sturmtiger

Hallo Mario,

weißt Du Näheres zu dem neuen Sturmtiger in Ungarn?

Thema: Ergänzung zur Gallerie 502 42/43
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 336
Hits: 236636

22.05.2008 23:22 Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

ein neues Bild vom Tiger 2:

Thema: Unidentified Tiger I
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 473
Hits: 249516

13.05.2008 14:11 Forum: Tiger zuordnen

Hallo Hartmut,

gemeint war, dass die 124 auf Bild 2 sehr der Nummer der Tiger II der 505 (Bild 3) ähnelt.

Der Tiger I auf dem 1. Bild kann es aber nicht sein (oder er wurde später umlackiert), weil dort die Nummer noch in der ursprünglichen Form zu sehen ist.

Er müßte dann zeitlich zwischen der Aufnahme des Tiger I 124 (Bild 1) und dem Tiger II 124 (Bild 3) einzuordnen sein.

Wahrscheinlich hat er die Nummer schon an der Kanone, wie Du richtig sagst. Das sieht man hier auf Bild 2 allerdings nicht. Oder ist dies durch eine Nummer auf der Staukiste ausgeschlossen?

Matthias

Thema: Unidentified Tiger I
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 473
Hits: 249516

12.05.2008 23:04 Forum: Tiger zuordnen

Hallo Hartmut,

vielleicht ist der 124 von der 505, vielleicht der Tiger I kurz vor der Umrüstung auf Tiger II - in dieser Reihenfolge:



Font der Nummer und Tarnung könnten passen, oder?

Matthias

Thema: unidentifizierte Jagdtiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 103
Hits: 74451

12.05.2008 13:32 Forum: Jagdtiger

Hello Chris,

another view on 332! Thanks for the additional picture!

Cheers

Matthias

Thema: unidentifizierte Jagdtiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 103
Hits: 74451

11.04.2008 17:17 Forum: Jagdtiger

Hello Chris,

thanks for the additions!

The first JT is the one at Etterschlag, the second is 332, both from sPzJgAbt 653.

Cheers

Matthias

Thema: unidentifizierte Jagdtiger
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 103
Hits: 74451

01.04.2008 22:42 Forum: Jagdtiger

Ich meine, diese beiden Fotos zeigen denselben JT:





Wie kommt Devey auf die Fg.Nr. 305 014?

Thema: Tiger 113
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 7
Hits: 5975

Tiger 113 24.03.2008 23:04 Forum: Tiger zuordnen

ist dieser schon sicher zugeordnet?

Thema: Ergänzung zur Gallerie FKL 301
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 32
Hits: 35294

20.03.2008 11:22 Forum: sPzAbt.301(Fkl)

Hallo Hartmut,

507 - also im Osten? Da sind britische Soldaten am abgeschossenen Panzer auf den grabs von Michael, wenn ich mich nicht irre.

Im Westen 44/45 bleiben nicht so viele Möglichkeiten für einen Tiger I (eigentlich ja zwei).

Ich meine, die Halterungen könnten für Benzinkanister vorgesehen gewesen sein, ein typisches Merkmal für die 301 (siehe 201, 113, den abgeschleppten in der Galerie,...)

Ich meine, das müssten die beiden Verluste vom 21.1.45 bei Waldfeucht, Raum Geilenkirchen sein.

Zum Köln-Tiger:

am 1.3. habe ich einen Verlust bei Bergheim, am 5.3. zwei in Dormagen, alle von der 301 und alle nahe Köln. Ich nehme an, der Tiger wurde dort von den Briten aufgesammelt und nach Sennelager gebracht.

Thema: Ergänzung zur Gallerie FKL 301
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 32
Hits: 35294

20.03.2008 00:44 Forum: sPzAbt.301(Fkl)

Schaun mer mal smile



201 und 211 sind natürlich auch nicht unumstritten, und mit dem Köln-Tiger lehne ich mich weit aus dem Fenster, aber bisher habe ich noch keine bessere Erklärung gefunden.

MR

Thema: Deutschland 1944/1945
Matthias Radu

Antworten: 0
Hits: 10792

Deutschland 1944/1945 20.03.2008 00:24 Forum: sPzAbt.301(Fkl)

111


113


201




211




313



Geilenkirchen


unbekannt




Köln / Sennelager




sources:
Tiger im Kampf
Panzerwrecks
ebay
via Michael Kenny
Internet

With the further help of Mario Lippert, Chris Brown and Herbert Ackermans.

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